It's run by an EN-EL3a Li-Ion, 7.4v 1500 mAh battery pack. My question is, is this normal? 1. Is there a simple measurement I could make - that would give me an indication how much life there is in the battery pack? If there is a reliable third party charger specificly intended to charge the battery for your product then it would also be acceptable. Most of today's notebook computers have a hysteresis built into the charge cycle such that, if you fully charge it, no charging will occur until you have intentionally discharged it to some extent. Of course 0% is still bad, the cell begins failing, but the phone will protect from that (0% is not actually 0%). In the meantime I hope a Battery University member will conduct a precision test focused on conditions for maximum lifespan. Now my concern is that to my undertanding Li-ion batteries charge well in the 3.9 to 4.2 Voltz range, whilst usb ports have a 5V rating, which is way higher than the recomended 4.2V. and battery longevity. Question is: is the USB charge less stressful than the one with AC adapter? That perfectly functioning phone will need to be replaced for this very reason. My battery can't backup anymore, and I only get to have Power for 6hours a day. If you are usually plugged in when you work, the battery does not even need to be in your laptop. How do I store my lithium batters for the winter, I use them in my yard tools. what i've understood is this and i'm not even sure its correct. I may wind up maybe using them only 4 times a year at most as a week end warrior. it carries details about the contents, cooking instructions, etc. Charging them regularly: Ideally, lithium batteries should never be completed uncharged, so its important to remember to charge your batteries in the winter months when they are most prone to quick loss of power. As soon as the charge is complete, I put the battery back in the camera. Doesn't this mean that the curves ending in a 100% SoC are unrealistically inflating the degradation of the batteries? Maybe I am the only one missing one aspect of the number of cycles verses depth of discharge: if you only get 500 cycles with 100% discharge, as compared to 4700 cycles with 10% discharge, those cycles are not equivalent. Industry, on the other hand, is more concerned about longevity and may choose lower voltage thresholds. Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, the depth of discharge (DoD) determines the cycle count of the battery. Hardly ever used on charger. I spent wanna read a physics paper. It's not good for your battery to spend its entire time at full charge. Also, if possibility of being true (from what I'm reading here, that should not be the case) is there a good way to discharge them faster (eg rig up something with a resistor so I don't need to run my phone through all of these exercises?? From the reading above, If I want too prolong the battery life I should let it drain down to 50-60% battery life then put it on the charger? The spare battery (official GS3 accessories pack) has only lost 4% power after 1.5 months of storage time starting on 100%. Thanks, Dick. . The best way to extend battery life and performance on devices that don't support smart charging is to drain the battery below 50 percent several times a week before recharging rather than discharging it on frequent short and shallow discharge The other vendors need to open their eyes and tend to their tardy homework All just in my amateur opinions of course That's a terrific tip Hoon, thank you! Am I doing this right? The key isn't the number of re-charges, it is the total hours you get out of the battery. Basic, compact, and portable. After reading through this article, I went and did some measurements on some of the phones I own. If you want to take it a step further or for longer-term storage, you can tape the terminal of the battery with electrical tape (to prevent accidental conduction and short circuits) and store it in a sealed ziplock bag inside your fridge (to prevent moisture). Follow the manufacturers instructions for charging time and voltage settings. Reducing Depth-of-Discharge and Charge Voltage still benefits the 3.85v battery. Now I try to charge the batteries but the charger shuts off after a few minutes and will not light up again even after disconnecting the battery. Historically I have got excellent life from my laptop and iPhone batteries when cycling between about 75%80% and 20%25%. I achieved this by hardly ever using the computer." Do you believe this to be a coincidence or quality factor. In this case we have lower voltage, but the battery is much more in use, enduring more (partial) cycles. LiFe voltage Do the above measurements should be interpreted accordingly? BU-306: What is the Function of the Separator? The smaller the discharge (low DoD), the longer the battery will last. Since then I feel like my mobile battery is not good. No this is not good especaially for the hard disk as a reverse voltage can cause serious damage. Does anyone know the improvement in the # of cycles if the charge discharge is 0.5C instead of 1C. Charge your pack in as little as 10 min. For instance, I might charge up my drill to 90% because I'm getting ready to heavily use it. and what is recommended range of charging for S7`s kind of battery? This could be what is going on with your 58% vs 73% values. Thus there appears to be no possible software means to control the battery's charge level in a Mac due to lack of hardware support. While initial life produced a range up to 20 miles on our 24 volt emoto bikes, that range degraded to 1 mile after 2 years on the first bike, and the second bike is now at 8 mile maximum after 22 months and degrading rapidly. Hi there, What is the safe range of SOC for large scale Li-ion battery energy storage system (2 MW-4 MWhr) ? 50%DoD just means the capacity level to which you would discharge your battery below the 'original' capacity. A few years ago a physicist friend explained to me that it doesn't matter how far you discharge the battery but once it's on the charger it should be left on until the battery is fully charged. can be recovered via charging), surely it has not lost 15% permanently in just 1.5 months. A 2 year old Li based battery is considered old doesnt matter if you used it or not and probably is holding 80% of initial charge. I haven't looked at this in any detail but it seems to me that recommendations for optimum voltage for long storage life need to reference the specific type of battery instead of only stating lithium ion. @Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman "forever" warranty, you can always return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory. 3. my laptop is set to switch the display off after 1 minute. DoD: depth of discharge, SoD - EoD. The experts will tell you that there is no "conditioning" needed with Li-Ion, however I have seen first hand experience which begs to differ. (Some NMC are the exception.) Does anyone know what would happen to a samsung phone which has 3000mah battery but was shipped with 0% battery and subsequently was stored in storage in warehouse for a year and the protection cut off switch was activated so did not turn on upon receiving. This is a nasty test but LiFePO4 does it more safely than traditional Li-ion as the presentation makes clear. In addition, if possible do not charge your battery to 100%. i agree, its better to be sure. My Samsung NC10 netbook when new ran on battery for 4 hours and 20 minutes. I bought it on Amazon. Low temperature reduces chemical activity and therefore keeps the batteries from discharging. Why the battery swell ? To some extent I mainly use the battery as an AC filter. Should help me conserve some legacy systems beyond 'average', which is better than I could have managed before reading this essay Now I need to figure out the charger actions of a couple of laptop/power-adapter combinations, and use habits of my associates. How come, that almost all smartphone chargers (verified randomly 3 at home) have an output of 5V and 1.0A, while my battery clearly states, "Limited Charge Voltage 4.35V,? This is supposedly to prevent frequent micro-level discharging - charging - discharging - charging etc. So the batteries will be sort of in (semi-)long term storage. Is it 50% or 25%? The article is very clear in what it says. So charge it sometimes, if you desided to store it (again - no point in doing this). Through this method you cut the power from the protection circuits and it resets some parameters related to the battery monitoring. Luca - no; you're better to use the device while it's being charged, as this reduces battery use and wear. It was for the people who just come here for free answers without putting forth any effort to actually learn what the article is teaching. ULTRAPOWER 4Amp 12.8V-14.6V Lithium LifePO4 Battery Charger,4-Stage Automatic Repair Intelligent Lithium Battery Charger for Cars,Motorcycles,Lawn Mowers,Toy Cars,Golf Carts,LifePO4 Batteries. You wrote that "Most users do not remove the AC power, and this practice is safe", but of course this goes against the "Partial charge better than a full charge" guidance rule: keeping the laptop connected to the AC grid would keep the battery always at 100% charge. Just trying to help so you guys don't make the same mistake. I have to assume that these items have been sitting in a warehouse or store uncharged for over four years. Now I want to make sure that my new battery lasts longer than my old battery. "Look ma, my battery lasted ten years. . And second question: how Young's modulus of Li batteries changes depend of temperature. You may also be interested in the fundamentals of battery testing. I imagine few enough so that to bring them back to 40% I should leave them plugged in 10 minutes ? 10% DoD ~10,000 / 15,000. You are correct in your observation, but you should have taken it one step farther. Any thoughts? My Toshiba laptop and cell phone batteries will serve me longer and stronger. If assuming useful work was done in each depth, then in fact getting 500 cycles actually gets a bit more work than 4700 cycles of only 10% the depth." I still even after 50 months m getting 35 minutes battery back up . Warnings,. information, is there any laptop battery with screw fitting that can be opened up to replace li ion batteries instead of throwing out the good electronic parts? Thanks for any replies. My battery now still has 86.9% of its initial capacity. **** COMPLETELY WRONG!!! Allow the battery to charge fully ( with your Laptop off ) Once charged use your laptop on battery mode till it discharges and you get a pop up suggesting that you have to charge your battery. My battery has that information. Why 10x? What is 120 Vca ? Microsoft probably did the best they could but are handcuffed by their open hardware environment, and most hardware isn't battery management enlightened. Hi, I purchased a laptop computer with embedded battery (the battery cant be removed) and Im wondering if I need to calibrate the battery or not? 2. when running on battery, my processor is underclocked to 60%. I studied a bit deeper hoping that common Mac hardware has general purpose access to that line such that software could control or influence it, thus allowing a utility to control state of charge of the battery like the Sony Vaio and Lenovo ThinkPad, but evidently it doesn't. The table shows numbers of cycles for different DoD. The failure is when it can only get to 70%. The advantage is that you can put them in series to directly replace lead-acid batteries, and charge them with standard lead-acid battery chargers. The study shows that 10% and 25% depth of discharge was not as good as 50% (table 2) but would have liked to see the 75% and 90% depth of discharge data as those would be more practical options. Thank you. or will the unused one get old? Based on the information provided in this article, isn't it the best practice to remove the battery for as long as you are home and let the laptop run solely from the power supply?Say that your battery is 50-60% drained or even 40% isnt it still better to save it from several hours everyday of being topped off as being in full charge stresses the cell a lot? Charge efficiency: a LiFePO4 battery will reach full charge in 2 hours or less. More info on charge rates at BU-401a: Fast and Ultra-fast Chargers. A threshold of 30% would be much more realistic and would probably show that the 100% discharge nets much more charge than the 10% one. Amy standard commercial battery operated device would have these safety features built in and can be seen as miniature circuit boards when disassembling a battery pack. Battery But how about a bullet point explanation for those of us who don't want to read 5000 words and just want the basic idea of what is best for our smart phone? The voltage should be set to the voltage written on the battery and the max current should be set to 5% of total capacity. The advantage of Li-ion is that it is light. Thank you Rajdeep. Figure 5 demonstrates cycle count as a function of charge voltage. Also for my electric bike is this the best SoC to maintain capacity at a prolonged period. Happy New Year for all !!! You mention that the battery is a 3.8 volts 250mAh cell but i think the 3.8 refers to the nominal voltage. Who buys a horrendously expensive notebook battery just because the battery only delivers 5 hours of work time instead of 7? The "Recent Usage" section is under the "Installed Batteries" section, and it shows the charge and usage history of your battery over the past 3 days. Balance charge your battery pack and it will probably go back up to nearly 20 miles again. Life cycle in LiFePO4 are much higher than other lithium chemistries, about 1000-2000 cycles. How to check your laptop's battery health (Check your instruction book or if you have children, use good judgment.) The conclusion you should reach, other than being sidetracked by your own poor way of arguing, is that a more realistic threshold might show that the charge that could be expected would be pretty much even for certain charge levels. during working hours, at my desk) ?? Does anyone know if the pack is good or should I return the drill to Sears. I am aware that Li-battery starts to degrade as soon as it leaves the manufacturing line. I use it without the battery and I keep it at 40%. On the negative side, a lower peak charge voltage reduces the capacity the battery stores. Well short of the 200+ re-charge cycles. What is charge rate for LiFe Which it actually below the maximum suggested charge cycles for charging at 100%DOD. Required fields are marked *. I know I've only recharged it (maybe) 70 times. Many Li-ion batteries will hold charge and maintain their performance for a decade or more. Set my charger (SkyRC MC3000) to charge to 4.10 volts and let charging go on till the voltage drop to 0.1 - 0.2 volts. One strategy with them is to use an in-line meter that shows the current used. Andy, If removing the battery is the smart thing to do, then perhaps a woman could provide an optimum solution. The lithium-ion battery works on ion movement between the positive and negative electrodes. What do you do with dead batteries? I think I know now why they have been reduced to clear. I have been trying to estimate lion battery capacity SOC from voltages. Question: I was told to leave the computer on at all times, just shut the lid. Its storing them flat that's the problem. When I reach my destination I can then use mains. One comment - a couple of your graphs are the wrong way around - the convention is to have the independent variable on the x-axis. By doing this, you also follow the 50%DoD in this article that appears to statistically give the most hours of use for a Lit-Ion battery. Table 2 estimates the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at various DoD levels before the battery capacity drops to 70 percent. Another example is with two LG android phones, which I bought in late 2014. When charging a lead acid battery, the three main stages are bulk, absorption, and float. Which one is correct? 3. you buy a new laptop after turning on discharge to 10%, recharge fully to 100% form there on discharge to no further then 40%, recharge no further than 80% once a month discharge to 10% and then recharge to 100%. As a simple guideline, every 70mV reduction in charge voltage lowers the overall capacity by 10 percent. Since I plan to keep the phone for a while (I doubt I'll switch in 2 years), I want to try and be careful with the battery. gotta say, best. Trying to decide whether to send it back. Btw, provide proof for your so called equivocations. Another issue: do you recommend keeping the battery charge in 40% or its not necessary? This 'tree-power' article is pretty interesting. I have now taken steps to charge the battery at about 30%. The other battery, which to all external appearances is identical, does not show this option. I've seen this habit destroy capacity very prematurely numerous times. Its not the number of re-charges that is important, but the total hours before the battery cannot get to above 70%. Does that make much difference? 2. But even crazier is the subject of the article that has racked up idk how many actual comments but for sure approximately 6 years worth And they're all about BATTERIES! The question is asked, Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because charging stops when the Li-ion battery is full. This will add to the life of the battery. @BigMart With that kind of use, I would recommend to recharge the battery the day before your coach / train journey. I don't know if they're the correct words. Biggest issue would be lack of top balancing unless you have external balancer. I have an Acer V7 - 482PG-6629, Yes, partial discharge is better than full discharge, but also partial charge (meaning - not fully charging the battery) is better than full charge. Heres the unfortunate rub: Due to marketing related specsmanship pressures, cell management systems (charging and other management circuits) have different priorities. One of them (mine) was charged using the 40-80 method, while the other one was used normally. We are away summers and temperatures in the garage where the golf cart is stored can reach 100 deg F (about 39 deg C). The background is full black, screensaver is full black, browser background is full black. If anyone ever gets anything useful out of itwhich is doubtfulit will be the articles author realizing what he could have worded differently to better avoid confusion and needless arguments." STORE THE BATTERY AT ROOM TEMPERATURE. There will probably always be "101 things to avoid doing" with any battery technology. Walt, I agree with you that Li-Ion doesn't always behave exactly as indicated in the article. C-rate of the battery. My another question is, which is worse, 0% to 50% every day or 50% to 100% every day? For a 1.6Ah battery, C = 1.6A. A device with Lithium batteries (especially Li-ion & Li-Polymer/LiPo) should not be left connected to chargers for >1 month unattended. So, 75-65% is actually 3% better than 100-25% when both have gone through same amount of discharging/charging units. You're welcome to disprove what I actually said by using my own words, instead of just claiming that you got it right, while you clearly have no clue what you're talking about Just to not just let your little statement die like it probably should, I'll put table 2 into perspective. What I said is that you "should leave the laptop plugged in with the battery as often as possible" IF the charging circuity is high enough quality.
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